[Note: The sound quality on the tape is very poor and therefore, some parts of the interview are indecipherable, including most questions and comments by the interviewer.]
Well, I was one of these kids that always liked to draw, so I think I actually remember one day when we were in elementary school, maybe grade 2 or something, we were asked what we wanted to do. And I think I asked my mother what kind of profession draws a lot. And she said, 鈥淲ell, you want to be an architect鈥�. And so I kept saying architect. So I have friends who have known me for fifteen years and they say, 鈥淥h, you always wanted to be an architect鈥� . And, in fact, I always say, 鈥淲ell, no because I actually didn鈥檛 know at the time what an architect really was. And even when I was applying then for university when I was in high school I was still thinking about being an architect but I wasn鈥檛 sure if it was something that I鈥檇 gradually do well or- yeah, if I even was going to do it or not. And then so the thing is in the west, all these schools are graduate programmes, like UBC. So that would give me some four years to do my Bachelor鈥檚 degree in general science or arts or whatever and then I鈥檇 go to architecture. And so I went into general science at UBC and I did two years there. In between these two years I took one summer to go to the University of Oregon where they had the introductory architecture programme. And that was a very, very good experience. I鈥檓 very glad I did that. I had an excellent time and I think it was a real, in retrospect now I think it was a real advantage to have done a programme like that before going into architecture because the first few months of studying architecture really can be very intense and you can develop very quickly. So that was a very good experience and I was very excited because I thought yes,聽this is something I can do. And so then coming back, this was after my first year at UBC, and after that summer it was too late to apply to another school of architecture that you can go after a year of university or even right out from high school. So- well at first there was this question of whether I wanted to still get my degree and then go into architecture, but I thought that鈥檚 a waste of time. So, yeah, I applied to 平特五不中 and the Technical University of Nova Scotia, which I hear is kind of [unclear]. And in fact I was leaning towards TUNS because they have this co-op programme and I thought that was a good idea. But my parents were very pro-平特五不中 because 平特五不中 [unclear] University kind of, so whatever. But it actually turned out I didn鈥檛 have a choice because at TUNS they screwed my application up, so whatever. But actually, I鈥檓 very glad though because [unclear] a very important awareness of [unclear]. And I think Montreal is a very urban city [unclear]. So [unclear].
[3:44:22]
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Well, it was a little bit funny in first year because you have all these people who- well, this gets back to that experience at U of Oregon because I had been introduced into the studio life and what it is to be in a school of architecture, I wasn鈥檛- well, this is funny because there were all these students around me who didn鈥檛 know what it was going to be like. And that was kind of interesting to see things kind of fall into place, because for the most part I think all schools of architecture have the same sort of studio life at least. And, I don鈥檛 know, I think it was hard to adjust to the intensity of being at 平特五不中 in particular. It was just a difficult load, the load of work you have to do.
[5:10:27]
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Yeah, yeah, but it鈥檚 also difficult because it鈥檚 hard to gauge the amount of time you should be spending doing studio work and balancing that with your other courses because it鈥檚 not a normal kind of course.
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Yeah, I had David Covo and Howard Davies and Lea Zeppetelli was there and Gavin Affleck and Marie-Eve- Marie- Now I can鈥檛 remember her name. It was Marie-Something!
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Well, I think it would have actually benefited if they had all sort of played a more equal role I think in that, for instance, every week, we had a seminar or lecture, every Monday or Tuesday. And it was David Covo who would always present slides. And that was very interesting just to be exposed to a lot of pictures. That was very inspiring. However, I think Howard did one lecture or two and the other professors, the other assistants, did one lecture or two. And they were all very good at these individual lectures. And I think it just would have been more interesting if they had presented more often because they really have a different approach and a different area of experience.
[7:27:17]
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Well, in first year actually, it was funny because we started- there were six of us who [unclear] because we had had鈥� well, I had had the two years at 平特五不中- or at UBC so I had some of my electives [unclear] taken care of. So we weren鈥檛 satisfied with the electives we had to choose from in first year. So we started a photography course with Rick Kerrigan on our own. And now I think it鈥� s- well, [unclear]. But it became a normal course. And that was very fun because it was just the six of us and we were- you know it was very new for us to learn how to change the lens of the cameras to take proper photos. So that was very interesting. And then another course I was thinking about is Historic Preservation, which was a very interesting course too. And that was taught by Julia Gersovitz. And she鈥檚 great. She鈥檚 very-
[9:01:01]
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Yeah, that鈥檚 what she does for a living but her character is just [unclear]. Also as a course, it鈥檚 a little bit strange because you鈥檙e taught about the classical orders in a very efficient manner and then methods of preservation but then it鈥檚 also very essential in that she talks about different construction methods, which is very basic. And also what I liked about this course is that we had to do this historic structures analysis, which was sixty percent of our mark. And, yeah, we had to pick a historic building in Montreal, a group of us- or it was mostly in pairs. We had to do this complete rundown of the history of the building, its-
Which building did you pick?
We picked the- it鈥檚 actually- it became a 平特五不中 building but it used to be an old- it was called the Gertrude Joslin houses on Pine.
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Yeah, no top of University. And it became the department of some very strange radi- it was some medical thing but a bit strange. And it wasn鈥檛 in use anymore. But it was very enjoyable to do this thing and also because it was this big presentation, it was this huge component of our mark. It was-
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Yeah and it was like, I don鈥檛 know, it was an accomplishment to go up there and do this thing. And we did well. It was very enjoyable. But I think a lot of these things, a lot of these experiences that we had are not even course-planned. I mean it鈥檚 not sort of the 平特五不中 intention to say, 鈥淲ell, we鈥� re offering this course because it鈥檚 going to help you [unclear] when you鈥� re out of school [unclear].
[11:30:16]
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Well, I鈥檇 taken quite a bit of art history. [Unclear] at UBC, too. And it always depends of the professor because now art history is becoming very self-analytical, just how it is being taught and so it鈥檚 interesting. And again I think when you see the professor that you have, when you see, when you鈥檙e introduced to their actual, specific area of interest, it becomes a lot more interesting. I mean I imagine that our different history- the whole- from Rome 鈥榯il now, as it was taught to us is sort of a formula for teaching it. It has to be followed in a certain way. But what I remember with Annmarie is that she did two other lectures. There was one on the influence of the sitcom. She talked a little bit about the sitcom and television and things like how- yeah, I remember she had a slide with the cast of Bewitched and how that was indicative of the whole suburban way at the time. And it was very interesting to see- not only is it interesting because it鈥檚 a fresh view of the world, you know, put together in a way that you haven鈥檛 heard before but also because when it is the professor鈥檚 passion, it comes through in the way it鈥檚 taught, in their enthusiasm.
[13:47:24]
[Section of interview unintelligible]
It鈥檚 one of those courses that I think is very- again, inspired by the sheer quantity of images that you see. It is a difficult course to teach because there are principles of- it鈥檚 just a lot of principles. And so I think it鈥檚 one of those things again that it鈥檚 just the more the better. You know, the most inspiring part of it is to look at the images. It鈥檚 kind of like this: there鈥檚 this book on [unclear], right. It鈥檚 a [unclear] book. It鈥檚 a thick book and it鈥� s full of principles, how [unclear] make you [unclear]. But, in fact, I think just looking at the pictures is the best part of the book. I don鈥檛 remember why [unclear].
[15:17:18]
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
What about- I鈥檓 just trying to think of some of the others. Was Bruce teaching you at this time?
Yeah, yeah. I had him for- he was my thesis advisor and I had him for third-year design. And that was funny too because he鈥檚 interested in sort of classical architecture. And it was funny how everyone tried to fight that subject. Yeah, I think maybe the problem is that a little bit- in third year in a four-year programme it鈥檚 a little bit late to be introduced to classical architecture. But it was just funny because I remember hearing everyone鈥檚 excuses: 鈥淭his is classical because it is symmetrical. This is classical because this is [unclear] or something鈥�. It was just an indirect way of making your designs somehow fit the mandate. But I enjoyed that studio [unclear].
[16:25:12]
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Yeah, yeah.
Well tell us your experience.
Well, Sketching School was very nice. Well I paint or I 鈥� yeah, I paint quite a- well, quite regularly. Not so much but I make a point of doing it every now and then. And so I think about it a lot. When I was away too in Europe I was constantly thinking about doing something outside of work just to keep satisfied because work is work. It鈥檚 not always so interesting. But Sketching School was very memorable and it鈥檚 a really good idea. One thing too, I think it could be a little bit more analytical of not so much- well, I think it is very easy to get caught up on making very beautiful paintings. And in fact I remember myself thinking that I wanted everything I draw to be a piece, you know, a frameable thing. And I think that puts a lot of pressure on. I mean Sketching School you could describe as being almost enjoyable because it鈥檚 so, you know, perfect [unclear].
[17:46:19]
It鈥檚 a great time of year. You鈥檙e with friends and there鈥檚 no great pressure.
Yeah.
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
But there is this burden hanging over your head over the twenty pieces that you have to submit. And that鈥檚 it. It鈥檚 just that, I don鈥檛 know, we should have maybe talked about more like why we鈥檙e here and [unclear]. And we鈥檙e looking at buildings that follow a certain tradition that鈥檚 typical for the area and we should have talked maybe more of why it is what it is instead of picturesque paintings.
[18:26:29]
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Yeah, it was Ricardo Castro and I think he鈥檚 a very inspirational person too because the way he works is-
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
He鈥檚 a nice person and he keeps very busy and if you talk to him I think you would- if someone were to come with another responsibility for him to do he would do it even though his life is already really packed as it is.
[19:17:23]
[Unclear]. How about Norbert?
I never had him as a professor.
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Yeah, yeah. And he spent a lot of time I think in Copenhagen too so I鈥檝e had him in mind. And I鈥檝e seen slides of his [unclear] too. It鈥檚 very nice. But it鈥� s a shame because I never have- well, it鈥檚 one of those things you don鈥檛 have enough time to do it really.
Your memories of 平特五不中 are all pretty positive, I guess? Even though [unclear]?
Well one thing is surveying. Did you ever take that class?
Yeah.
Yeah, that鈥檚- I could start on a whole discussion about it.
Why?
[Section of interview unintelligible]
But in terms of just being in Montreal in the springtime, I remember we were sitting there on this hill and you have to imagine all these people in this field with their little [unclear].
[Section of interview unintelligible]
So we鈥檙e on the hill and [unclear] at a certain point just over the hill you could see the skyline of Montreal emerging and [unclear] and bongos were being played. And it was very weird but quite a wonderful moment. And then another surveying moment that I have stuck in my head is when we were, well, we were surveying and we had our metal poles with the measuring tapes on them. And thunderclouds are approaching and we see lightening and I said- and it really was like boot camp. I don鈥檛 know if it was when you went.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, so again, it鈥檚 this question of what鈥檚 the intention because yes, we bonded out of this experience but it was mostly out of defiance rather than-.
[21:44:27]
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Yeah. So yeah, I say to the- one of the supervisor people, 鈥淚 don鈥檛 feel comfortable with this metal rod because lightening is approaching鈥�. And he said, 鈥淣o, no. It鈥檚 not a threat鈥�. And I was like, 鈥淥kay鈥�. And then the lightening came closer and the skies just burst and it was raining like you wouldn鈥檛 believe. And we were all running. And, of course, there is a proper way to hold your instrument, which they taught us and we just grabbed any way we could our things and we鈥檙e running and laughing. That was a nice moment.
[22:24:13]
So if you had to sum up your years at 平特五不中, what would you [unclear]?
It鈥檚 little things.
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Well Copenhagen when I got there it was the place where I wanted to stay because there were a lot of places in Europe that are beautiful cities but what mattered to me was that it was also a livable place but also that it- that there鈥檚 new projects, new architecture was of a certain quality. And that was very [unclear] that very good architecture was still being produced. And the difference [unclear] between Denmark and Sweden, for instance, is I think it鈥檚 more than anything how the architect or the profession is [unclear] the society. And everybody has a lot of respect for architects. And that makes such a big difference. So working for [unclear], I mean, I got into it for something like three weeks or something, because I was really working- I wanted to stay. It was intense and everything but I just imagine it won鈥檛 be as easy to work with him because there are a lot of things I saw [unclear] this is rather inefficient. It just wouldn鈥檛 go down.
[24:20:01]
[Interviewer鈥檚 comments unintelligible]
Well, I just want to have a good job and- No but I think nowadays, for instance, I鈥檝e established that I have to maintain a certain standard in my life. And also being- I think the biggest lesson being away and working with people who are at least twelve years older than me is you see what it is going to be like to be an architect. And you have forty and fifty year old architects that come into the firm and are fired two months later and go from job to job to job, not necessarily because they鈥檙e bad architects but because of all sorts of social complexities that happen in a [unclear] group. Those kinds of things just make me want to- I don鈥檛 know, I somehow feel like I can鈥� t actually lead my life a certain way [unclear] going from job to job to job, I think that means, I don鈥檛 know how exactly, but just-
[25:52:28]
[Section of interview unintelligible]
So did you enjoy the interview?
Yes.
Strange circumstances but thank you very much.
Well, thank you.
[26:19:02]
